I remain confused as to why Israeli spies would need to be taking clandestine photos of the WTC either before or after the attack. They were already among the most photographed buildings in the world, and images of their destruction were played nonstop around the planet for months on end?
You're a genius! According to the German article, it was reported that Israel provided the CIA with the identities of those terrorists prior to 911, and Dawson portrays it as though Israelis were positioned nearby to assist them with their requirements. He is a complete fraud . WOW
You planning to debunk Ryan Faulk’s new article anytime soon? He published a new article on Jewish population & TFR history. Btw i loved your interview with Ubersoy
READ Christopher-Bollyn’s book on 9/11- It EXPOSES the Zionists, their control over the US MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, and their use of FALSE-FLAG ATTACKS
My comment strangely disappeared. I recommended the books by Jewish researcher Elias Davidsson, who completely debunked the official conspiracy theory. For many it may be a bitter pill to swallow, but 9/11 was a classic Israeli deception, with or without any dancing Israelis.
Hi Vivare, this is a great piece, but I fear there is a triple fallacy here, as visible in the title and subtitle of your piece, "The Dancing Israelis and the Spurious Israel–9/11 Connection".
First, the piece is mostly about Dawson's home-made documentary, while other authors explored the Dancing Israelis and especially the Israeli art students in much greater detail (e.g. Ketcham). If you want to review a documentary, you should review Laurent Guyenot's film.
Second, the dancing Israelis are largely irrelevant to the Israel - 9/11 connection. So debunking the Dancing Israelis, which I don't think you managed to do, doesn't question the Israel - 9/11 connection.
Third, the Israel - 9/11 connection is much deeper than you seem to be aware. For instance, Graeme MacQueen showed how the anthrax letters and 9/11 were intertwined operations, involving the very same people. The idea was to blame the letters on AQ and Iraq. This was exposed as a fraud, and with it, 9/11 was exposed as a fraud, because the two operations were part of the same operation, and the Israeli art students were involved in both of them.
The Bin Laden story was basically a hoax promoted by the American and Israeli governments. I don't think any serious researcher has ever taken this story seriously.
you're a funny guy. It is you who just appealed to authority ("they don't have a PHD"). I didn't appeal to authority at all. I said other researchers investigated the Dancing Israelis and the Israeli art students in much greater detail. So focusing on Dawson is a classic straw man.
The people who still believe the Bin Laden conspiracy have obviously been fooled by appeals to authority. It's probably the same people who believed the Russiagate hoax.
"Former Ten Most Wanted Fugitive #456: Bin Laden was wanted in connection with the 1998 bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya."
I don't actually discuss OBL in this post because Ryan Dawson seems to accept he was behind the attack. The idea he wasn't involved is another conspiracy theory not relevant to the one I addressed.
But he does or did seem to believe the US and Israel used AQ for 9/11, just like they used them in Afghanistan, Bosnia and Syria.
There is no such evidence, of course. No CCTV of Arabs boarding the planes, no Arabs on original passenger lists, no cockpit voice recorders, no nothing. Just dancing Israelis.
Well I don't think one should focus on authors, but on theories. Dawson certainly supports the "Israel did it" theory, so OBL played a secondary role at most, or was just a boogeyman.
At the end of the day, the US government could never prove OBL was involved, while the Israelis were caught monitoring the alleged hijackers and celebrating the destruction of the WTC towers, which they themselves controlled. The Israelis claimed OBL did 9/11 and Saddam Hussein did the Anthrax letters, but both conspiracy claims turned out be lies.
I remember the USS Liberty incident, when Israelis attacked a US ship and tried to blame it on the Egyptians. Or Operation Northwoods, when the US planned to use drones to fake a Cuban attack on a US plane.
And since you mentioned Cossiga: most skeptics didn't think he was being ironic, but that he went crazy (https://www.911facts.dk/?p=7542). The problem is, he suspected state involvement already in 2001. And he clearly wasn't being ironic about the P2, Stalin and Yeltsin.
Jason, your incessant stream of new accounts created simply with the purpose of bypassing my anti-spam measures is impressive if a little pathetic. I will allow you to keep this account and rehash your old arguments again, but retire the others. Thanks
So I checked how Dawson views al qaeda. Sure enough, he sees them as American/Israeli proxies and useful idiots who fought in Syria on behalf of the US and Israel. I don't know if he believes al qaeda was involved in 9/11 other than as patsies. At most, he seems to believe in a "let it happen" scenario.
But again, there is no court-admissible evidence that Arabs were involved at all, and even if there were such evidence, there is no evidence Bin Laden was involved in any way, as the FBI acknowledged. The Taliban asked for such evidence, too, and the US govt provided none. Because there is none.
I don't what know your motivation here is. I agree a serious and unbiased look into the JQ is important, but you're making many of the same mistakes and unjustified assumptions as the "conspiracists".
Concerning the Dancing Israelis, it remains a fact that some of them worked or had worked for Israeli intelligence and they alone, not any Muslims, celebrated the event, perhaps already after the first plane hit. The role of the Israeli "art students", also linked to Israeli intelligence and following the Arabs in the US, is even more incriminating and already proves a direct Israeli link to the entire operation.
Look, my post was focused only on one line of argument, which I point out at the beginning. I only had so much room and so much patience, so no I did not address the notion that bin Laden actually should've been taken at his initial word and that he and his Arab accomplices had nothing to do with the attack. For all else I defer to what I've already written to you or in the above piece.
...The Corriere della Sera article was the entire source of this dispute... That was WHERE he was being sarcastic to begin with. I didn't link to it, because *it was linked to by Ron Unz* whom I did link to. If he was being sarcastic in the piece where he totally frankly says conspiracy theories like 9/11-CIA are ridiculous attempts to dodge reality (ahem), then you'd be suggesting he not only believes in this Moro conspiracy, but also that Stalin was poisoned by Beria and that Yeltsin was a CIA agent. This is extremely dumb.
Look, focusing on Dawson's film is already a straw man since Dawson isn't an intellectual author. If you're serious, you should discuss Guyenot's film 9/11 and Israel's Great Game or Mazzucco's New Pearl Harbor, which completely debunks the official story.
And again, regardless of any interviews, real or fake, there is simply no evidence Bin Laden was involved, and the FBI acknowledged this. You simply believed in the most ridiculous conspiracy theory out there, first advanced by your hero, Ehud Barak, of course.
And even excluding Bin Laden, there is no court-admissible evidence "al qaeda" was involved, either. Just government claims and hoax passports "found in the street".
I've watched New Pearl Harbor and it's so deranged that it isn't worth a second thought. I'm so sick of the nihilistic conspiracy theorism whereby you attempt to poke holes in every possible thing and "just ask questions" that don't even end up helping your own narrative or any other. The CIA landed the plane and forced the passengers to make phone calls to their loved ones before destroying them and all the evidence? Are you kidding me? And that's more sensible than just hijacking the plane? Flight 77 just disappeared and never crashed into the Pentagon? Really? Completely done with this schizophrenic bullshit.
"the kind of tactics the conspiracists generally rely on. "
You do understand that the USG/Israeli theory of "Bin Laden and the Arab hijackers" is a conspiracy theory, too, and a ridiculous one at that? In other words, you do understand that you yourself, whatever your opinion, are a conspiracist?
Conspiracies do exist, it is true. But we all know what I meant by "conspiracist," so I used it as a referent because there aren't many adequate alternatives.
No, see my detailed comment above. You believe in the long-debunked Bin Laden conspiracy. You are a true conspiracist. The Israel hypothesis remains the most plausible one by far, regardless of the actual role of the Dancing Israelis.
By the way, why didn't you mention the lighter seen in their photos?
So I've read your entire article and it's very weak. It boils down to "trust the Israelis and the FBI". Yes some of the Israelis worked for the Mossad but "that's not surprising". Yes Israeli "art students" were following the Arabs in the US but "we shouldn't think too much about it."
The GWB event was already resolved by the NYPD and you've added nothing new.
But most importantly, you seem to seriously believe that Bin Laden was involved in 9/11. Apparently you really don't know that Bin Laden denied any involvement, the FBI confirmed there was no evidence Bin Laden was involved, and even Cheney himself later acknowledged this.
Furthermore, you seem to seriously believe the Arabs hijacked the planes and flew them into the towers and the Pentagon. You even seem to believe that Ryan believes this!
In reality, there is no evidence at all that Arabs hijacked any planes on that day. None at all. Only empty speculation based on ridiculous "passports" and impossible "phone calls".
No video of them boarding the planes, no confirmed passenger lists showing them on board, no evidence they would have been able to pilot an airliner.
You've been had, big time.
"Alas, one can hope for a right-wing politics for once freed from the paranoid style, but I’m not holding my breath." The paranoid people are those who believe the government-sanctioned conspiracy theories.
Like Bin Laden did 9/11. Or Iraq did the anthrax letters. Or Russia installed Trump and faked the Biden laptop. I wouldn't be surprised if you believed all of this.
Another one: you believe Cossiga "was being ironic" when he referred to the CIA and Mossad simply because a Guardian journalist said so! Rather, it is obvious that Cossiga was being ironic in his La Stampa commentary.
It has long been clear that the Brigate Rosse who killed Aldo Moro were controlled by the P2/SISMI/CIA, and Cossiga of course knew this, as he himself revealed the existence of Gladio.
Did you seriously believe Communist revolutionaries would kidnap and kill Aldo Moro on the day he was striking a historic deal with the Communists that the CIA opposed?
>why didn't you mention the lighter seen in their photos?
Because it has no relevance.
>Osama bin Laden...
Yes, Al Qaeda perpetrated the attacks, and yes, Ryan Dawson himself says this much, if you'd watched the documentary. I even heard him affirm this very "government-sanctioned conspiracy theory" on a Twitter space just the other day.
>Cossiga
...was in fact being ironic, yes. I cited two sources to that end, since you didn't notice.
>The GWB event was already resolved by the NYPD
Now look who's buying the government-sanctioned conspiracy theories! Maybe you could clear up Dawson's confusion, since to this day he and many others still believe in this myth, and to that end I actually compiled and added quite a lot, and made quite a few novel connections.
>Silverstein
Your own article specifies he was at a serious loss. The funds given were strictly for the rebuilding efforts, and the article at least mentions how they didn't surpass the likely total costs. The costs of the purchase and subsequent debts for Silverstein's group are separate.
Again, the lighter is not relevant, and you haven't proven it is or that I was somehow being deceptive by leaving such an oh-so-important detail out of the post. I've already addressed their happiness at great lengths.
Regarding Cossiga, did you even read the article he himself wrote... ?
"IN a few days marks the anniversary of the attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon by the terrorists of the powerful "Islamic Revenge" movement Al Qaeda . . . In this case too, the "conspiracy" theories recur, which would like to attribute the devastating terrorist attack to intelligence departments or agencies of the United States administration . . . 'Conspiracy theory' is a historical-ideological theory aimed at denying pure and simple reality to avoid the consequences of a fact"
And you say this unequivocal statement "didn't confirm his sarcasm at all"? Give me a break.
And yes, Silverstein was still at a loss. I won't reiterate this or my other points so etc. etc.
I remain confused as to why Israeli spies would need to be taking clandestine photos of the WTC either before or after the attack. They were already among the most photographed buildings in the world, and images of their destruction were played nonstop around the planet for months on end?
Another thing one isn't supposed to think too hard about
You're a genius! According to the German article, it was reported that Israel provided the CIA with the identities of those terrorists prior to 911, and Dawson portrays it as though Israelis were positioned nearby to assist them with their requirements. He is a complete fraud . WOW
https://archive.ph/OkS6F
https://archive.ph/OkS6F
I found a link to an Israeli newspaper article about the Interview of the Israelis on Israeli TV , here it is.
https://www.makorrishon.co.il/nrg/online/archive/ART/214/064.html
Did you recently get banned from Twitter? What was the reason?
Bit of a story there but apparently they take "kys" very seriously on Twitter.
Impressive work Will!
Great piece Will! Very well researched. I'm not surprised to see Dawson is shoddy on other subjects (in addition to Holocaust denial).
You planning to debunk Ryan Faulk’s new article anytime soon? He published a new article on Jewish population & TFR history. Btw i loved your interview with Ubersoy
You can't sue propagandists. Everybody knows that.
Elon Musk is one of the first that might prevail, but I bet he backs down.
Another banger, Will
Wait why tf did this show up in my feed more than a year after
READ Christopher-Bollyn’s book on 9/11- It EXPOSES the Zionists, their control over the US MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, and their use of FALSE-FLAG ATTACKS
Would you debate Dawson about this?
Maybe on a Twitter space but I doubt he'd be up for it
Funny running into you here
this is how they fooled you: https://truthandshadows.com/2015/03/19/hijackers-did-not-board-planes/ . but you're probably just a zionist shill and knew this anyway.
So true!
My comment strangely disappeared. I recommended the books by Jewish researcher Elias Davidsson, who completely debunked the official conspiracy theory. For many it may be a bitter pill to swallow, but 9/11 was a classic Israeli deception, with or without any dancing Israelis.
Hi Vivare, this is a great piece, but I fear there is a triple fallacy here, as visible in the title and subtitle of your piece, "The Dancing Israelis and the Spurious Israel–9/11 Connection".
First, the piece is mostly about Dawson's home-made documentary, while other authors explored the Dancing Israelis and especially the Israeli art students in much greater detail (e.g. Ketcham). If you want to review a documentary, you should review Laurent Guyenot's film.
Second, the dancing Israelis are largely irrelevant to the Israel - 9/11 connection. So debunking the Dancing Israelis, which I don't think you managed to do, doesn't question the Israel - 9/11 connection.
Third, the Israel - 9/11 connection is much deeper than you seem to be aware. For instance, Graeme MacQueen showed how the anthrax letters and 9/11 were intertwined operations, involving the very same people. The idea was to blame the letters on AQ and Iraq. This was exposed as a fraud, and with it, 9/11 was exposed as a fraud, because the two operations were part of the same operation, and the Israeli art students were involved in both of them.
The Bin Laden story was basically a hoax promoted by the American and Israeli governments. I don't think any serious researcher has ever taken this story seriously.
you're a funny guy. It is you who just appealed to authority ("they don't have a PHD"). I didn't appeal to authority at all. I said other researchers investigated the Dancing Israelis and the Israeli art students in much greater detail. So focusing on Dawson is a classic straw man.
The people who still believe the Bin Laden conspiracy have obviously been fooled by appeals to authority. It's probably the same people who believed the Russiagate hoax.
Has the author already discussed this?
"Former Ten Most Wanted Fugitive #456: Bin Laden was wanted in connection with the 1998 bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya."
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/topten-history/hires_images/FBI-456-UsamaBinLaden.jpg/view
I don't actually discuss OBL in this post because Ryan Dawson seems to accept he was behind the attack. The idea he wasn't involved is another conspiracy theory not relevant to the one I addressed.
Dawson: "So this narrative about an operation being run by a bearded guy in a cave by men with box cutters is nonsense. " https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3ft1j8/ryan_dawson_creator_of_war_by_deception_ask_me/
But he does or did seem to believe the US and Israel used AQ for 9/11, just like they used them in Afghanistan, Bosnia and Syria.
There is no such evidence, of course. No CCTV of Arabs boarding the planes, no Arabs on original passenger lists, no cockpit voice recorders, no nothing. Just dancing Israelis.
Well I don't think one should focus on authors, but on theories. Dawson certainly supports the "Israel did it" theory, so OBL played a secondary role at most, or was just a boogeyman.
At the end of the day, the US government could never prove OBL was involved, while the Israelis were caught monitoring the alleged hijackers and celebrating the destruction of the WTC towers, which they themselves controlled. The Israelis claimed OBL did 9/11 and Saddam Hussein did the Anthrax letters, but both conspiracy claims turned out be lies.
I remember the USS Liberty incident, when Israelis attacked a US ship and tried to blame it on the Egyptians. Or Operation Northwoods, when the US planned to use drones to fake a Cuban attack on a US plane.
And since you mentioned Cossiga: most skeptics didn't think he was being ironic, but that he went crazy (https://www.911facts.dk/?p=7542). The problem is, he suspected state involvement already in 2001. And he clearly wasn't being ironic about the P2, Stalin and Yeltsin.
Jason, your incessant stream of new accounts created simply with the purpose of bypassing my anti-spam measures is impressive if a little pathetic. I will allow you to keep this account and rehash your old arguments again, but retire the others. Thanks
I don't know Jason, and I don't think this is about spam, but about deleting refutations of your favorite conspiracy theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCzy9i4tIHU
So I checked how Dawson views al qaeda. Sure enough, he sees them as American/Israeli proxies and useful idiots who fought in Syria on behalf of the US and Israel. I don't know if he believes al qaeda was involved in 9/11 other than as patsies. At most, he seems to believe in a "let it happen" scenario.
But again, there is no court-admissible evidence that Arabs were involved at all, and even if there were such evidence, there is no evidence Bin Laden was involved in any way, as the FBI acknowledged. The Taliban asked for such evidence, too, and the US govt provided none. Because there is none.
I don't what know your motivation here is. I agree a serious and unbiased look into the JQ is important, but you're making many of the same mistakes and unjustified assumptions as the "conspiracists".
Concerning the Dancing Israelis, it remains a fact that some of them worked or had worked for Israeli intelligence and they alone, not any Muslims, celebrated the event, perhaps already after the first plane hit. The role of the Israeli "art students", also linked to Israeli intelligence and following the Arabs in the US, is even more incriminating and already proves a direct Israeli link to the entire operation.
Look, my post was focused only on one line of argument, which I point out at the beginning. I only had so much room and so much patience, so no I did not address the notion that bin Laden actually should've been taken at his initial word and that he and his Arab accomplices had nothing to do with the attack. For all else I defer to what I've already written to you or in the above piece.
...The Corriere della Sera article was the entire source of this dispute... That was WHERE he was being sarcastic to begin with. I didn't link to it, because *it was linked to by Ron Unz* whom I did link to. If he was being sarcastic in the piece where he totally frankly says conspiracy theories like 9/11-CIA are ridiculous attempts to dodge reality (ahem), then you'd be suggesting he not only believes in this Moro conspiracy, but also that Stalin was poisoned by Beria and that Yeltsin was a CIA agent. This is extremely dumb.
https://web.archive.org/web/20100919004558/http://archivio.lastampa.it/LaStampaArchivio/main/History/tmpl_viewObj.jsp?objid=7190957
Look, focusing on Dawson's film is already a straw man since Dawson isn't an intellectual author. If you're serious, you should discuss Guyenot's film 9/11 and Israel's Great Game or Mazzucco's New Pearl Harbor, which completely debunks the official story.
And again, regardless of any interviews, real or fake, there is simply no evidence Bin Laden was involved, and the FBI acknowledged this. You simply believed in the most ridiculous conspiracy theory out there, first advanced by your hero, Ehud Barak, of course.
And even excluding Bin Laden, there is no court-admissible evidence "al qaeda" was involved, either. Just government claims and hoax passports "found in the street".
Fin.
I've watched New Pearl Harbor and it's so deranged that it isn't worth a second thought. I'm so sick of the nihilistic conspiracy theorism whereby you attempt to poke holes in every possible thing and "just ask questions" that don't even end up helping your own narrative or any other. The CIA landed the plane and forced the passengers to make phone calls to their loved ones before destroying them and all the evidence? Are you kidding me? And that's more sensible than just hijacking the plane? Flight 77 just disappeared and never crashed into the Pentagon? Really? Completely done with this schizophrenic bullshit.
"the kind of tactics the conspiracists generally rely on. "
You do understand that the USG/Israeli theory of "Bin Laden and the Arab hijackers" is a conspiracy theory, too, and a ridiculous one at that? In other words, you do understand that you yourself, whatever your opinion, are a conspiracist?
Conspiracies do exist, it is true. But we all know what I meant by "conspiracist," so I used it as a referent because there aren't many adequate alternatives.
No, see my detailed comment above. You believe in the long-debunked Bin Laden conspiracy. You are a true conspiracist. The Israel hypothesis remains the most plausible one by far, regardless of the actual role of the Dancing Israelis.
By the way, why didn't you mention the lighter seen in their photos?
I removed your other comments and will paste them in this one section, here, since I don't appreciate the spam:
It was a Zionist operation from start to finish: https://www.wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it
So I've read your entire article and it's very weak. It boils down to "trust the Israelis and the FBI". Yes some of the Israelis worked for the Mossad but "that's not surprising". Yes Israeli "art students" were following the Arabs in the US but "we shouldn't think too much about it."
The GWB event was already resolved by the NYPD and you've added nothing new.
But most importantly, you seem to seriously believe that Bin Laden was involved in 9/11. Apparently you really don't know that Bin Laden denied any involvement, the FBI confirmed there was no evidence Bin Laden was involved, and even Cheney himself later acknowledged this.
Furthermore, you seem to seriously believe the Arabs hijacked the planes and flew them into the towers and the Pentagon. You even seem to believe that Ryan believes this!
In reality, there is no evidence at all that Arabs hijacked any planes on that day. None at all. Only empty speculation based on ridiculous "passports" and impossible "phone calls".
No video of them boarding the planes, no confirmed passenger lists showing them on board, no evidence they would have been able to pilot an airliner.
You've been had, big time.
"Alas, one can hope for a right-wing politics for once freed from the paranoid style, but I’m not holding my breath." The paranoid people are those who believe the government-sanctioned conspiracy theories.
Like Bin Laden did 9/11. Or Iraq did the anthrax letters. Or Russia installed Trump and faked the Biden laptop. I wouldn't be surprised if you believed all of this.
Another one: you believe Cossiga "was being ironic" when he referred to the CIA and Mossad simply because a Guardian journalist said so! Rather, it is obvious that Cossiga was being ironic in his La Stampa commentary.
It has long been clear that the Brigate Rosse who killed Aldo Moro were controlled by the P2/SISMI/CIA, and Cossiga of course knew this, as he himself revealed the existence of Gladio.
Did you seriously believe Communist revolutionaries would kidnap and kill Aldo Moro on the day he was striking a historic deal with the Communists that the CIA opposed?
there is also no doubt Silverstein has made a substantial profit with the WTC deal. The article you linked to is 17 years old! Much of the reconstruction cost was borne by the state and other investors: https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2021/09/10/larry-silverstein-durst-oculus-20-years-and-20-billion-after-911-the-world-trade-center-is-still-a-work-in-progress/
>why didn't you mention the lighter seen in their photos?
Because it has no relevance.
>Osama bin Laden...
Yes, Al Qaeda perpetrated the attacks, and yes, Ryan Dawson himself says this much, if you'd watched the documentary. I even heard him affirm this very "government-sanctioned conspiracy theory" on a Twitter space just the other day.
>Cossiga
...was in fact being ironic, yes. I cited two sources to that end, since you didn't notice.
>The GWB event was already resolved by the NYPD
Now look who's buying the government-sanctioned conspiracy theories! Maybe you could clear up Dawson's confusion, since to this day he and many others still believe in this myth, and to that end I actually compiled and added quite a lot, and made quite a few novel connections.
>Silverstein
Your own article specifies he was at a serious loss. The funds given were strictly for the rebuilding efforts, and the article at least mentions how they didn't surpass the likely total costs. The costs of the purchase and subsequent debts for Silverstein's group are separate.
End.
Again, the lighter is not relevant, and you haven't proven it is or that I was somehow being deceptive by leaving such an oh-so-important detail out of the post. I've already addressed their happiness at great lengths.
Regarding Cossiga, did you even read the article he himself wrote... ?
"IN a few days marks the anniversary of the attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon by the terrorists of the powerful "Islamic Revenge" movement Al Qaeda . . . In this case too, the "conspiracy" theories recur, which would like to attribute the devastating terrorist attack to intelligence departments or agencies of the United States administration . . . 'Conspiracy theory' is a historical-ideological theory aimed at denying pure and simple reality to avoid the consequences of a fact"
And you say this unequivocal statement "didn't confirm his sarcasm at all"? Give me a break.
And yes, Silverstein was still at a loss. I won't reiterate this or my other points so etc. etc.
Fin.